Steve, Jenn and Mike talk Luke 7
Video Transcript
good afternoon friendsmy name is jennifer long and i’mcurrently a pastor at emmanuel lutheranchurch in corning new yorki’m here with my fantastic colleaguessteve langford who is retired from theunited methodistchurch and living in arlington texas andwriting with a fervorunlike any other and mike troutman whoispastor of first presbyterian in fergusonmissourium and we are here today to share withyouluke uh the gospel of luke chapter sevenand uh some of our thinking about thatall right uh i was uh given the honorof uh reading first so i’ll be readingfrom the message eugene peterson’suh work uh i wouldn’t call it atranslationbut kind of uh trying to put theintent of the text in the ways that wemay understand it a little differentlyso here it goes verse 1 when jesusfinished speaking to the peoplehe entered capernaum a roman captainthere had a servantwho was on his death bed he praised himhighly and didn’t want to lose himwhen he heard jesus was back he sentleaders from the jewish community askinghim to come and heal his servantthey came to jesus and urged him to doit saying he deserves thishe loves our people he even built theirmeeting placejesus went with them when he was stillquite far away from the house thecaptain sentfriends to tell him master you don’t goyou don’t have to go to all this troublei’m not that good of a person you knowi’d be embarrassed for you to come tomy house even embarrassed to come to youin person just give an order and myservant will get welli’m a man under orders i also giveordersi tell one soldier go and he goesanother comeand he comes my slave do this and hedoes thattake it about jesus address theaccompany crowdi’ve yet to come across this kind ofsimple trust anywhere in israelthe very people who are supposed to knowabout god and how god workswhen the messengers got back home theyfound the servantup and well continuing from the newrevised standard translation at verse11 soon afterwards jesus went to a towncalled namehis disciples in a large crowd went withhimas he approached the gate of the town aman who had died was being carried outhe was his mother’s only son she was awidowand with her was a large crowd from thetownwhen the lord saw her he had compassionfor herand said to her do not weep then he cameforward and touched the brotherand the bearer stood still and he saidyoung mani say to you rise the dead man set upand began to speakand jesus gave him to his motherseized all of them and they glorifiedgod saying a great prophet has arisenamong us and god has looked favorably onhis peoplethis word about him spread throughoutjudea and all the surrounding countrythe word of god for the people of godamen thanks be to godyikes we only have 20 minutes to talkabout this i just hit the timer that’sall you gotoh both stories are about deathso i see this as is as a prelude toluke’s resurrection narrative thisone was about to die the other was deadand the issue is jesus’s authorityso that’s the way i would approach itwhere do you enter into it jimum i’ve been thinking about um what doesit mean to be close to deathum especially during a time of pandemicwhere we’re looking at 400 000on a list close to death now has lookedlike being alonewhich i think has been really hard forfamily members i know it’s been reallyhard for clergyi have not had um i thinkexcept for two deaths in my congregationso sometimes i would say it feels alittle distant to mebut even in doing those funerals it justis sothe sense of distance even when you arestanding together in one placebut masked and six feet apart umwe can’t be close to death so that thatone really kind ofum engagement i think the other place umthat i enter into thisis the the real struggle with while iunderstandthat all of these are intended to teachus and i can think of wonderful waysthey speak to us metaphoricallyhow does someone who is living withcancerhow does somebody who is getting readyto bury their spouse because they’re onhospicehear these things and not ask thequestion if jesus could heal themwhy has jesus not done it for me and andit’s not that i don’tunderstand and have a true deep theologybehindthat i do i just think whenever i readstories like thisthose questions pop up for me certainlyand i think this you know more thanteachinguh well equally to the teaching is thereflection and the experience of luke’scommunitywhere this happened all the time youknow where people would die and get sickand not get better andyou know you also could have to put itin the context of theexpectation that jesus was coming soonand so why is all this hurt and pain andtragedy happening around usis our faith somehow not faith enoughthat these things are happening so youknow this is a deepand moving experience thati think we maybe in this time of covetuh are probably a little more sensitizedto thanperhaps in other times in our livesand can wetrust jesus authority over power overillness and death whenum our loved ones or when iam not healed yeah i mean i i thinkthose for mei was also thinking mike when you readumthe message there were two pieces icaught that were different wording thanmineum one was um i am not good enough ithink is how yours read it mine saidworthyand i thought how do we enter into thatwhat does it mean to be good enough whatdoes it meanto be worthy um because i think there’sa senseto me that i understand that i am alwaysworthy in god’s eyesbut there’s always also always a senseyou know the reason for which aconfession exists in a liturgythat there are ways that i do fall shortso how do i live intoto wanting to recognize that and livedifferently and at the same timerecognizing that i amthat i am worthy that i am good enoughfor god and then there wasmy mine at the it’s at the end of um thesection you read and it says jesushasn’t found something mine says i tellyou not evenin israel have i found such faith butyou had a different wording and i wasvery interested about that and i can’tremember what it was i didn’t write itdown quickly enoughabout being beside himselfi’ll have to look because i closed mybible go ahead and keep talking and i’llclose your bible you slacker oh well youknowpresbyterians what are you going to dowith us you knowyou’re you’re you’re your whole ownisland aren’t youpicking up on that worthy concept younotice that when the jews came to jesusto intercede for the centurionthey talked about him being worthy hehad earnedhis right for jesus’s attention and thenhe comes in saying i am not worthythere is that whole human mentality ofbelieving wehave to earn our way or be worthy ofgod’s attentionbut you know what i think is interestingin both of them coming with that thatlike you’ve got one who’s saying i’m notworthy you’ve got others just sayinghe is worthy that jesus doesn’t reallyengage that jesusjust comes and heals him he doesn’t sayyes you are or no you’re not he justhe sees an a deep need and he respondsto that deep need he does not respond tothe judgment of the needout of grace this is how he relates hedoesn’t get caught up inthat that issue of of earning anddeservingwhich is so central to our humanthinking yeahyeah what’d you find mike well what i’mnot sureyou know it says real quick uh thattaken aback jesus addressed theaccompanying crowdi’ve yet to come across a simple kind oftrust anywhere in israelthe very true yeah simple trustis what yours replaced faith with and ijust i thought that was interestingyeah um and and one like do i think thatfaith is simple trust oryou know not even i mean these wordshave such big meaningso if i’m saying i have faith insomething and five doors down myneighbor is saying they have faith insomething it might not mean the samethingso but i like the idea of umfaith being simple trust as opposed tobeing a complex set of things you haveto say you believe or you’re not inyeah and even moreremarkable i think in this passagesis the fact that you know we read abouta roman centurion ahnot much to us right i mean you knowuh it’s a whole different understandingwhen you understand a historicalsituation the jews in romerome romans uh as occupiersuh it would be reading much different ifyou’d read thisand said oh yeah this is uhyou know some kind of middle easternterroristor you know a person that we maydespise somehow uh who we really don’tthink is worthy and if we were good jewsin that context we we would see themas the occupiers as the oppressors andwhy is god again this funny thingwe did with elijah and the widowyou know god kind of breaks through thebarriers weraise up and uh i thinkin some ways affirms our common humanityno matterwhat kind of ethnicity or genderor uh sexual orientation or whatever thebarriers we useto divide one another jesus breaksthroughin a powerful waythis whole way of thinking of earningand deserving being worthyis what divides us in that to us in themi really like that idea of jesus umbreaking through less about why does godheal this one and not meand more about what are the places inwhichgod might break through inin the face of illness in the face ofdeath um and in these particular storiesthey’re about healing and raising but idon’t think that meanswell i mean i i know i believe that godcan break through in those placeswhether or not healing and raising istaking placeat least that’s been my own experienceyeah and andwhat kind of healing and raising can godbringto my spirit in the midst of thisdespairthink of what this mother felt when heronly son is deadand she’s left totally destitute yeah noi’m not willing to think about that i’mi’munwilling to think about thatbut god being able to to bring healingto raisingof the despondency how can god in theface of illness that we’re not beingcured of how can god bring a lifeto a broken spirit yeahand i think what you have referred toearlier steve that theseare really about resurrection passagesrightyeah and that extends that jesus haspower over deathnot only in this life but the next yeahand we face death with that assurancethat this is not the last orderyeah do you have a sense of what youthink that looks likejesus having power over death in thenext lifei have a sense of it but it’s justuh i wouldn’t say it’s a simple trustit’s a convoluted trustand that um yeah i just think thatwhatever happens to us at death as stevesaid it’s not the last word so i reallydon’t know what that looks likeuh and as i’ve gotten a little older andhopefullya little more understanding andconvinced of what i believe in and trustini can let go of the assurity of what itlooks like and embrace thatit’s going to happen so the process itrust the processthe content of it i you know it’si don’t know yeah i think for me i feellike i trust the process without havingany idea what that process is i mean icouldn’t begin to think about what thecontent of it isum i often think about i asked thequestion because i think about i had aseminary classmate and i know that’sgoing back a lot of years for me butstillwho um wrote like a thesis um at the endof our senior yearon on heaven you know so spent all thistime researching and writing andultimately the conclusion he came to ithink hetold me he was quoting somebody elsethat said umi can’t tell you anything about heavenexcept i believe it existsultimately you know richard rohrstates what so many people theologiansstateis that all of our language is metaphorso it can’t describe reality it can onlydescribe the truthof the reality and when it comes todeath all we have are images that talkabout our concept of death paulin philippians 2 uses two images one isinterest paid you know for me to live aschrist to die is gain isinterest being paid on what i’ve alreadyinvested and the otheris uh the casting off of the ropes thatmoora ship to the dock so that that death isthe casting off from this lifeon to the next for me the metaphor thati like to use about deathis that of birth for us fora a child in utero the birth experiencefeels like death the world that he knowsis coming to an endbut as we wait on the other side wedon’t call it death we call it birthso it’s all image yeah imagery how do wesaythat this is not the last word this isnot the endso and i know this is bouncing off ofthe scripture we actually have for todaybut umone of my favorite things about jkrowling’s booksis at um at one pointum i want to say dumbledore says i wouldhave tothis i would have to check to be certainum dumbledore says umthat death is but the next greatadventure kind of thing umbut i also remember one of the thingsthat is talked about about her is thatshe was wrestling with her own faith atthe time she was writing those books andtrying to figure out what she believedand what she puts on um harry’sharry’s parents gravesis a quote from corinthians and the lastenemy to be destroyed is deathyeah and for those of you who may notget what dumbledore is or harry it’sthe harry potter series that uh i knowat least jen and ihave consumed and find uhdelightful delightful that’s a good wayof putting it delightfuland you get the same imagery out of thestar warswhen obi-wan gets killed and yet harryis still able to see him and hear himand interact with himthe same way with yoda they’re quotephysically dead but they’re not goneyeah it’s that same imagery and you knowand i think we touch on those mysteriesuh throughout this thing andyou know i think i’ve become as a persona little moreemotionally able to hear mysteryi could intellectualize itbut it didn’t uh fit with theexistential angst that i hadabout death i you know i tease people ori said this beforei said you know when i died life isreally going to miss meto talk to you about your existentialangst and thenyou know it really is about i’m going tomiss lifeyeah because i i love the experience nomatter the painand hurt that i have livedum you know overallam i fortunate i know people have livedmuch worse circumstances than i’ve everhad to experienceand yet they have a sense of peace aboutlife they’ve been able tosee it and reframe it andboy that’s that’s an amazing thing to beable to refrainyour life and to see despite thethe trials and tribulations thatyou know life has been good and we canaffirm the biblicaluh understanding that life is goodand isn’t that what happens when wecome to terms with jesus as lord overdeath so that death loses its fear itchanges the way we do lifeand the way we view it and thank you imean i i don’t know for you guys if youi know that there was a time at which ispent a lot of time thinking about itand finally came to the conclusion formyselfis that i’m not afraid to die um and i’mnot unready to dieum but i would be sad for what i wouldmiss yeahyeah so what’s that fomo fear of missingout ii don’t want to die because of my fomothat just sounds kind of lame butyeah yeahi like the text in uh hebrews 12 thatsays we’re surrounded by this greatcloud of witnessesuh i like the concept of a one-waymirrorand in one way mary the people on oneside can see the otherbut the people on the other side don’tonly see a reflection of themselvesyeah i like that idea except kind of nowi feel like i’m in a policeinterrogation room just putting it outtherewell that you know the other images andpaul is i see it in the mirroryeah yeah dimly darkly i like dimlybetter because it’syou know it’s um we’re just notready to accept and if we are then wesee i think a little clearer throughthat mirrorand now we see that okaywhatever it is on the other side of iti’m going to be all rightand uh that does come myyou know my dread and my fear uma little i i wouldn’t say that i’m onthe other side of the fencethat i could make that affirmation thatyou made jenbut i’m getting closer to it yeah umi guess as i get closer to death i’m alittle closer to that understanding tooby choice bywe’re force up on transfiguration sundayin in a weekand isn’t that what happened in thetransfiguration that one-way mirror wastaken awayso that the three disciples were able toseemoses and elijah if you’re going toliteralize thatthey were still alive and so they’reinteracting with jesus without this veilbetweenyeah so there’sthere’s there’s little glimpsesthroughoutthe new testament scripture that saysthatdeath is not the last word no nogo ahead no you should comment on thatfirst because i’m going a littledifferent directionwell i was just going to say that youknow the othermessage of or i don’t want to jump aheadtoo muchis that you just can’t stay on thatother side of looking through the mirroryou got to live life and see the life inthe face nowand live out our moments as we live themum because if not i think what jen saidsometimes we miss out on whatgod is already doing in the midst ofuh of the world can we see it so where’sgod here and thenyeah yeah so garth brooks sings the songabout thatcalled uh standing outside the fire ihave lots of thoughts on that which i’mgonna sayuntil we’re talking transfiguration butuh i’m actually instead of going forwardwas looking back and umthe text that is the pericope that isright before what we read todayis uh have you built your house on sandor on rock yeah i think it is veryinteresting to think aboutfoundation like what’s my foundation andthen to read those two stories i just ithink it’s another angle another way ofshaping um[Music]another way of thinking about this textfor me that was really interestingyeah and that’s what we i thinkin our own ways have tried to encouragepeople to dois to say what’s your foundation what’syour thinking about thiswe’re kind of throwing all this stuff upand uhit’s like spaghetti to tell if it’s doneor not you throw it against the walldoes it stick with you i mean does itdoes it takedoes it have a sense that it it takes onmeaning for you that places you maybe ina different placeor uh that anchors you in your placebut to have that place where we’re it’sthe solid place of uhour faith that simple trust that thecenturion showsso beautifullywhat a perfect place to end becausebelieve it or not i just stopped thething from ringing in the background20 minutes already again already againit has happened again which means mikeyou’re upi know i get two last words herei feel specialhad i been able to predict that i mighthave asked for something different toolatelyoh yes then you should have been able topredict it butalascan you hear my eye roll from here youshould be able to hear it from herei do i do so let’s praywe’re just amazed heavily one thatyou touch our lives and you open us upand you break us open and you put usback together againand our journey is a journeyof discovery of hopeof promise and sowe asked that you would use these videosthat we’ve doneso that people and all of us togethermay come together and joinin a sense of your love and grace andthat we can live our lives in this worldwithout fearknowing that you have asked us to liveboldlywith grace and love and peaceas our guides and compasses so we thankyou for this timewe thank you for those who watch theseand we ask that your spirit may blessall of us on our journeyfor ask this in jesus name amen ameni cannot part without saying don’t justlive boldly friends i’m lutheran sinboldlyin the words of martin himself yeahpeace of christ peace all of you thankyou guys for conversationthanks
